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It's the month of March, and we have Oli Smith in the interview chair. Another interview over a popular instant messaging client, so sorry if it reads a little disjointed. We cover a fair bit here, both Oli's and my own thoughts on comic shops, comic conventions, Oli's future and Hugh Grant as Doctor Who. Have fun!
Hassan: Alright, well thanks for doing this. So, as a start, in case any fools haven't heard of you before, introduce yourself and some of the things you do.
Oli: Hi, I'm Oli Smith. Basically I began making comics nearly two years ago now, mostly autobiographical stuff with moody watercolours, soon to be branching into sci-fi and fantasy. My first comic was received very well and as such I got annoyed that my following ones were judged against the high bar I set myself with the first one apparently. As such I decided to become a small press champion rather
than an artist with integrity, gaining celebrity status without having to make good comics. I set up the London Underground Comics stall in Camden and spend my free time mouthing off at 'old school' small press conventions (not the events, the deep rooted ideas) like an arrogant dick whose opinion matters. Turned out people started listening so now I'm a bit stuck.
H: So as a kid, were you always interested in comics and drawing and storytelling, or was it something you came across later on?
O: Nope not at all, I flirted with the Beano and (how embarrassing) 'I love to read Batman' which I thought was awesome at the time. I then grew up as we all know only kids read comics. Storytelling was a different matter, Me mum inflicted classic after classic on me through my childhood and I would write pages and pages of creative writing in primary school...
But never participated in extracurricular activities that involved storytelling or writing.
H: I think we all pretty much grew up on the Beano…
O: Well it wasn't actually very good as I recall. The first time they repeated a story I lost a little of my innocence.
H: Haha, The Beano was great, far better than the Dandy anyway.
O: Oh the Dandy was always for gays.
H: I never got Desperate Dan as a character. Always seemed a bit weird. I mean, c'mon, cow pie?
O: Actually I thought he was pretty funny, it was his relationship with the town mayor that was good
great repartee. Oh um... not that I read it ever *ahem*.
H: Haha.
O: Want me to finish off the life story?
H: Go for it
O: Umm well, I enjoyed GCSE Art and English and had a great English AND Art teacher at the times, who really taught me everything I know, more HOW to learn than specifics which was fantastic, they mostly hated me though which was a shame but an incentive to prove myself.
H: Haha.
O: I never thought my future would be artistically involved and so I chose all sciences and Double Maths at A-level and it wasn't until I realised how much I missed art-class that I took it up as a hobby. It charmed the ladies mostly but that was about it, looking back its horrific stuff.
H: So what would you say has influenced your own work? It doesn't seem to be the Beano or the Dandy, but there do seem to be some filmic references that you've used every now and then...
O: Well I love films and wasn't interested in comics until my impressionable age was over, initially I wanted to make films and couldn't afford to do it so comics seemed the next best thing. It was then that I read From Hell and Swamp Thing and Alien- everything in my local library basically.
That I realised comics were their own thing.
Oh I forgot to mention I had every Tintin and Asterix books through my life which were fantastic and comparing them to the Tintin animated series highlighted the difference again. Both are fantastic (the theme tune is amazing) but work in different ways.
H: Tintin cartoon was so good, never read a comic of it, however.
O: Well you have a lot to learn young padawan.
H: Lucky Luke was always better. If you've ever heard of that.
O: I haven't but it sounds lame!
H: It’s so cool. Admittedly it was in French and I couldn’t read it, but it was cool, cowboys man.
Better than whatever the hell Tintin was supposed to be.
O: Tintin was a skinhead yob who didn't care about the law, he lived by his own rules.
H: A skinhead yob with a white fluffy dog?
O: Oh that was one snarling terrier of a guard dog, I don't think you took the time to look past the cartoon style to see what the characters would look like in real life! I mean Charlie Brown was a tubby skinhead.
H: Peanuts is terrible, Snoopy carried that whole strip.
O: Woah woah (to paraphrase Snowy) it was the will-they won't they between Charlie Brown and Peppermint Patty, such blasphemy from one so young! I identified with the steamy sexual tension that was never resolved...
H: Peanuts was terrible, and the cartoon was terrible.
O: So is your mum
IN BED!
H: I have no comeback.
O: That’s what you get for messing with the modern Oscar Wilde.
Pwnd!
H: Haha.
Well, moving swiftly on, your first comic was Hazy Thursday, right? What was it that made you want to start down the autobiographical route? Trying to do something good after reading all those Peanuts strips?
O: Whew, well I never wanted to do autobiography. I had a huge science fiction epic in mind- Idlechild it was called and it WILL be made. But I went to the Brighton convention first on my own with a shitty portfolio and realised I needed SOMETHING to sell on a table as this Idlechild would take forever. And I'd read Alec McGarry's How to be an Artist by the Eddimaister and loved the Streets' music and
decided to real off a quick short about me childhood as it didn't require any thought as to characters or plot, it was all just there.
And after that no one wanted anything else.
H: Well you do them pretty well.
Summer Ball is another example of something really great, although it feels slightly incomplete. Just a snapshot of that moment in time, and it would be really interesting to see what circumstances led up to that.
O: They are coming.
H: However, at the same time, adding more to it may lose its charm, part of what's appealing is you aren't quite sure exactly what happened.
What’s your plan for developing the Summer Ball story?
O: Well I like to do stand-alone comics and so I want to release a series of 5 or 6 other snapshots from those two years which should stand alone but together lay out the story, the next part will be called 'Julian's Parties' about a guy who has a house party every term throughout the two years and the comic will just have them one after another. You'll see the sweep of the characters but what happens
between each part is saved for a separate time if ever.
It’s a nice theme to give the broad outline of the story and have character progression but leaves wholes to be filled in at a later date.
I don't like TELLING the story with this particular series, its more about the images that stick out in my mind and to explain it to people would make the emotions more shallow I think once defined.
H: Yeah. I think that’s a nicer way of showing it, having self contained stories that interlinked. A great thing about autobiographical is the characters are already there, and it would be the readers choice to seek out these other stories, and see if what they thought was going on was - and if not, they still have a working self contained story.
O: Now I sound like a pretentious prick.
Although some people have troubles with beginnings, middles and ending with autobiographical stories for some reason they think they don’t need them.
H: And really you can't name the feelings of love or hate or whatever, because they are so individual and different each time.
O: Right well yeah the emotions I was feeling at that time were very mixed so it is hard to describe them in words, would chat to my friends for hours about them trying to convey them. It was that that made me realise it was probably easier to convey them by simply showing the situations and my behavior, when people identify with the situation they'll hopefully get a better idea of the emotion than me
telling them ever could.
H: I think it definitely works.
O: Why thank you.
H: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have a tendency to go back and re-do things, or add to things a fair bit. Adding to Summer Ball, possibly changing around with The Last Four Minutes, and a redoing of The Fish, is that you just wanting to make sure all your work is at the very best it can be?
O: Oh no not at all it is a golden rule that you should always be going forward. Summer Ball was never going to be a one off the only reason it could have been was if it was satisfying in itself, which I guess it is but people read into it kinda wrong in places. For instance not everyone gathered that I had been out with Pippa for over a year on and off, and thought I just loved her from afar.
The last four minutes was simply an exercise in a different art style, and images from that will be incorporated into something else but not the story.
Fish on the other hand is a reworking of sorts which is bad, but I loved the imagery from it and was a bit annoyed about the story because although the plot is really good the content is a lot of bitching and I cringe at it, hence the reason it was never published. What I am doing is taking the images I like and putting them in a completely different story.
But when I collect the two parts of Fish together I will reprint the original in the back.
If you look at the new pages so far, it has a very different feel to it.
There are panels in Hazy Thursday I wish were better but to change them would spoil it for me because it will have a different feel, more impersonal as I wasn't the same person doing those panels as I am now.
H: Yeah
H: Fish always seemed a bit confusing to me, I've read it about four times now, each time I'm picking up more of it I think, but out of everything I've read I do think that’s one that could use some reworking.
Either that or I just don't get it...
O: Well I think it's pretty easy to get to be honest, I guess it looks like there is more to it, but the Fish on my site is about the third version already, the first one was ridiculously confusing, about a world where birds were caged and had two characters who said faux profound things on a park bench, it was terrible.
H: I kept feeling I was missing something, I got the fundamental story of it, but there were lots of references I didn’t respond to.
O: I love the elements of it so much I'm just feeling around for the best way to present it all
hmmm what references in particular if you can remember them, like I said it was bitchy so probably in part only understandable by the people in question.
H: I think it was more that, there seemed to be something under the surface of it all.
O: There was and it was dark and bitter...
H: On the subject of confusion, probably again just me, the strip you did for Modern Monstrosity Presents I enjoyed, but I could never get what the symbols represented.
It seemed like it showed his development, of the lonely figure, then the joint figure, then possibly others involved and the final separation, but I was never sure.
O: That’s a problem with the art style, they were meant to show that but were also what was carved on his chest (either by him or the aliens abducting him) and if you put them together you get the crop-circle design he mows into the hill...
It was his way of communicating with the saucer
H: Ah, right. gotcha.
Well, moving further on, you're moving away from the autobiographical comics to try your hand at a sci-fi story? Can you say what it’s about, what it’s called, and when we're likely to see it?
O: I love the old B-movie saucer thing.
H: Never a huge alien kinda guy.
O: So I’m trying to do a thought- provoking 50's style thing merging with some action, I don't want to talk the plot too much until after it's done and I realise I forgot to tell anyone what was going on, but it will be in five or seven parts of 24 pages each, the first part is halfway done at the moment and is called 'Thunderous Heartbeat'. Followed by issue two entitled 'The Lonely Spaceman'.
At the moment I am still in two minds as to whether to actually show the aliens at all...
H: don't do it!
The worst part of an alien film is when they step out of the saucer.
O: That's what I always said...
H: you were right.
O: I'm always right.
H: Not about the Peanuts thing...
You could always go with a Close Encounters style way of interacting with the aliens, just through the actual saucer...
O: Yes it will be something like that, but because I have a full scale alien invasion about issue three it's hard to keep them in the background...
H: I'm looking forward to it. Any idea on a release, or just when it's finished?
O: End of March for part one hopefully then part two whenever I manage to a) flesh it out and b) get as far as I want to on Fish, not to mention the whole Physics degree thing.
H: Well alright. The comics obviously got you noticed, but what came first, the UK indie scene or you created your comic?
Did you go out there and find these kind of indie comics before you started work on your own? or did you come across it after you wanted to try and distribute your comics?
O: Well it was the indie scene that made me realise you didn't need a publisher to make a comic, and Brighton started a lot of good friendships so that when I finished Hazy Thursday I'd done my homework and sort of knew how to handle it...
The Indie scene is fantastic, the creators wonderful, the only thing I have a problem with is the people taking advantage of that...
H: Like who/how?
O: Well conventions are a fantastic excuse to socialise but some of the people running them have managed to convince the creators that they shouldn't expect to sell comics or make money and use that to rape them with huge table prices to fund guests that don't attract the kind of people interested in small press- either that or it goes into their pocket.
It doesn't take a physics degree to multiply the extra £10-£20 per table at the thing this year by 92 and wonder what that extra thousand pounds is actually going on...
H: That's what one of the great things about BICS was. The tables were cheaper for the indie creators, and it was great walking round there and seeing so many indie creators being represented alongside some of the bigger guys there.
O: Yeah and still table space for two days, half the price of the thing, also it has talks and events over the weekend to keep people wandering around, there is no such things at the Thing, it's charging money for
visitors to enter a room full of people selling stuff, it just seems silly.
Especially as it is not publicised at all except by old exhibitors.
H: You had the right point when you've previously said that conventions draw the same types of crowds each time, which they do, and how with the small and limited output of indie creators the money doesn't seem worth it, to exhibit at these events.
O: But what people don’t realise is that it's great seeing these Indie creators there but the thing whatever convention it is RELIES on the underground people to fund it, if small press didn't show up the convention wouldn't happen (as David Baillie put it) and it’s a shame it charges so much from people who do comics as a HOBBY.
Especially when that money goes on guest's hotel rooms rather than anything that will benefit the indie creators.
Conventions rely on us but don’t cater for us- there's a sound bite for you.
H: Yeah.
Which brings us nicely on to the Camden Comics Stall, London Underground Comics.
For that tiny amount of people that haven't heard of it, can you give a brief overview of the stalls?
(I think you're using more than one table now, right?)
O: Sell your comics for cheap... blah blah... £2 rent each week per person... blah blah... sell a fuck load of comics each week... blah blah... great soial atmosphere....new audience... etc.
We sometimes have two tables and sometimes one depends how I'm feeling and whether I think it will be worth it each week. we've definitely got enough stock for two tables at least.
H: It really is one of the few things I've seen that is legitimately trying to push out the knowledge of the small press creators.
It's almost definitely one of the only thing reaching to try and find new customers outside of the standard comic book fan.
O: One for the Roll of Honor then...
H: You've already had my vote.
O: Thanks muchly, I doubt I'll win, it's an old school award, for old school creators, and improving comics audience is apparently about selling a lot of comics rather than actively exploring new territory, which means that it's the distributors who should surely be nominated not the authors of those comics,
but I’m already getting hated on about this so take everything I say with a pinch of salt. But then I don't care ‘cos I'm a comics PUNK, a rebel, I play by my own rules... I’m like Tintin.
H: it really does show the lack of support for the indie scene compared with the support for mainstream comics, even with this being a British award.
The fact there's a separate category for favourite British comic is both disheartening and a nice touch
O: It's stupid because as much as people hate to admit it- if comics are going to make a come-back it will be the small press that does it. We're the future because we're doing something different.
I was talking at Caption about how comics don't seem to notice that popular stuff in other mediums is autobiography, soaps and real life and surely comics needs to focus on this more than superheroes if they want to compete.
One guys puts up his hand and says 'But Spiderman IS a soap'.
H: Haha
O: Oh give the man a medal, well in that case we'll just sit back and wait for everyone to NOTICE that Spider-man is EXACTLY like Eastenders then.
H: Haha.
There's a lot of defending superheroes though, because it’s what everyone grew up with
and it seems like Marvel and DC are way too scared to change anything, as the moment they do there's a huge uproar.
O: It’s what brought a lot of the indie creators into comics in the first place. But what is the point of doing something that’s already been done to death... is anyone’s favourite superhero comic one that has been made in the last twenty years?
H: they have to start separate smaller imprints just to try new things out, but even then they are still stuck in a certain genre.
Pretty sure everyone’s favourite superhero comic is Watchmen.
There was that tiny brief period mid-80's when Moore (and Miller, sort of) shook things up a little bit
and then the horrible 90's where everything just went back to how it was.
O: Watchmen, V for Vendetta, they’re never going to be topped, Especially now with he lack of creative freedom, so why are we still trying to do the same thing even though it’s been done perfectly?
H: It's the superhero fans. They want Watchmen and V again, but are too scared if it involves changing any of their characters.
O: Well then it’s never going to happen, and the more it doesn’t the more fans will give up and there are no new ones taking their place.
H: And the publishers are too scared to take on new characters if they aren't part of their vast universe.
It’s a shame, and something needs doing about it.
The medium's got stuck in its superhero rut, and there's little way of getting out of it really.
O: I’m trying my best...
H: Heh.
You're doing a good job of it too, exactly what needs to be done
We just need more of the stalls around the place.
O: I'm hoping to lead by example with the stall, because it required no investment I thought it would show people that anyone could do it... but they all just ask to send me their comics.
Oliver East who loves to hate on me in his blog posted on the Facebook group how it was a great idea and he hoped someone would do something like that near where he lived.
WHY DOESN’T HE DO IT THEN eh? eh?
H: Haha, there's markets everywhere, and even things like the Golden orbit comic mart, which deals primarily with some collectors, but there a bunch of young and new fans there would be helpful
I remember meeting David Bircham at a small one promoting Brodie's Law, and it just needs that kind of dedication and effort
O: Exactly and it IS a lot of effort for me, after this interview I’m going to spend an hour organising stock and choosing what to put on the stall and making calculations about how to keep everyone in profit, but in other areas of the country you won’t have as many comics to sort through and you can put ‘em on a craft fairs once a month.
H: And as further incentive, explain how much it costs you individually to run it
O: Nothing, I've made about £200 since I started, out of the 21 people who have been on the stall, three have not broke even...
On a weekly basis the rent is about £2, one comics worth.
H: and this is London, in the Camden market, which is hugely popular...
O: And as you can see in my new video I'm very careful about placing stock.
H: Haha
O: Exactly.
Although I have too many comics at the moment, to put them all out would be intimidating so I might have to cut back to London creators who can man the stall as its that kind of 'we made it ourselves' thing that sells
maybe with a couple of 'guests' each week
for one table, twenty people's comics, That’s 50 comics is a lot especially as the people who started on the stall now have new ones as well.
H: yeah.
This is something people should be doing. If anyone is interested in it, I'm sure Oli would kindly give a few helping tips on setting it up, and refer any people he doesn't have space for to other stalls.
O: Of course, it will be like having my own chain... that was a joke.
H: your own franchise...
O: But hear me now when I say, that we could be seeing the world’s first small press comic shop in the near future at this rate.
H: you've essentially got it now, with more benefits
we all know comic shops can be a bit daunting.
O: Our sales are comparable to some comic shops these days
and when my local comic shop has everything in plastic saying 'no browsing' we don’t have much competition
they sell to collectors and collectors hate small rpess
H: Haha. Its shops like that giving comics a bad name
even I’m worried about going into comic shops these days, it’s one of the most unfriendly atmospheres if you've not been keeping up with mainstream comics
you just know the guy working there is going to try and strike up a conversation
O: Definitely, which is stupid considering how many of these 'mainstream' comics actually sell.
Alan Moore talking about how he was selling half a million of a comic a week in the eighties and now 2000AD's circulation is around the ten thousand mark
But still roll of honour worthy I notice....
Damn straight I hate you all, and only want to stock my mates..
H: well, leaving the rant about that alone for now, if you want to get your comics down to London Underground comics... Don't?!?! Start up your own stall!
And, moving on to the indie scene as a whole, what’s unique about the indie scene that you just won’t find anywhere else?
O: Ah see this is the problem with trying to make small press profitable, because the fact that it's not now means that the people involved are passionate, talented, funny, fantastic people who I know I will be friends with the for the rest of my life, much more so than anyone from university who tend to be arrogant for no apparent reason. These people have achieved so much and deserve fame and money
and I look forward to sitting with them every Saturday whether this was profit making or not.
H: A few people that have worked their way from small press areas have become pretty profitable, I know Frank Quitely for example was a guy working hard for an indie scene before he got his big break
and recently Daniel Merlin Goodbrey and Douglas Noble got a story printed for Marvel
its like the reason we get into comics in the first place, generally, and the reason people start making comics is the love they had for them growing up
and when that opportunity comes along, you're going to take it.
O: No I'm not because unlike those people the mainstream wasn't why I got into comics so I have no aspirations in that area, I want to write what I want because it shows off my best work. It’s the reason I want small press to become bigger so I can be successful at doing what I want to do...
Ideally I would transfer into TV, maybe through storyboarding which I am doing a bit of at the moment, I have a pet TV series in my head and that's where I want to go and my small press work shows that off better than writing Spider-man would.
H: Yeah. So TV next for you, or ideally so. Have you tried pitching anything related to TV?
O: Not yet, I wanted to do this Channel Four thing where you pitch a series and a shortlist of pitches is taken on this month long workshop and the winner has their series made... but I couldn’t take the time off uni which is a shame, I need to pull my finger out in that respect. But Hazy Thursday should be being made into a short film at some point in the nearish future, by some people I have storyboarded for.
H: That sounds great, that’s a way into the "industry" anyway.
O: Yeah I’m not looking forward to dealing with an 'industry' though, I’d love to do an internship in TV but I can't afford to work for free at the moment.
It’s a shame that they refuse to pay runners just because they can.
God I’m making sweeping statements pissing people off at the moment... Sorry everyone! I don’t mean it!
H: Haha
O: It’s my PERSONAE,
like Alan Partridge only cool
H: Alan Partridge was always cool.
O: CoolER then.
H: In that sort of uncool way I guess.
O: Did you ever see the series Sugar Rush?
H: Yep, not a fan, honestly.
O: If I made a TV series that would be the one I would have wanted to make.
H: Haha, opened my mouth too early there.
O: Well that’s cos you young and probably think Skins is gritty
H: I meant "yeah, sounds great".
Don’t like Skins either,
can’t help remembering About a Boy.
O: Phew
In that case the Extras Christmas special was something else I would have been proud to take part in
or the Office.
H: waiting for Hugh Grant to burst in and those two have some awkward moments that eventually develop into a kind of father/son older brother bond.
the Extras Christmas special was good.
O: I love Hugh Grant, if only he'd been the new doctor Who...
H: Hahaha!
Doctor Hugh.
O: Oh I see what you did there... :)
H: I wonder if I can make that independently...
Full of charming awkwardness.
O: Probably.
H: Maybe a prostitute very now and then.
O: As long as there no more than one gay reference a minute then you won’t be anything like the new series.
H: I don’t get why the BBC get a good doctor and ruin it with a terrible sidekick…
Well, to almost wrap this up in the early hours of the morning, drawing to a close, what are your top 5 favourite UK indie comics at the moment?
O: Oh this interview is actually going to END?
H: It’s about time.
Less of an interview anyway, more a discussion...
O: Ummm I dunno, I don't read comics much, I grew out of them when I was like ten. But at a push I'm liking Andy Luke's Gran comic, Tales from the Flat (can't really miss that one off), BUffalo Roots by John Cei Douglas and Sean Azzopardi has made some real corkers recently as well as the Rule of Death by Dan Merlin Goodbrey and Douglas Noble is fantastic.
H: Well, that's about it then Oli. Anything else you'd like to plug or add?
O: Umm everyone needs to watch my YouTube vids and I want to give Torchwood some credit for being decent and Alex for helping complete Burnout whilst you were distracting me.
Can I go get my stall ready now?
H: Go ahead.
Thanks a lot!
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